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Discussion in 'Jazz Technique [DB]' started by Tom Lane, Feb 16, 2020.


  1. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    I've been digging into Lee Morgan's Ceora, Jobim's Chega de Saudade, Van Heusen's Here's That Rainy Day, and Haggard's What's New?, along with Coltrane's Giant Steps, and Countdown, and mostly enjoying them and I thought I'd remind everyone about them again.

    I've come away with a deeper affection for Ceora and Chega which have very sophisticated melodies with interesting chord progressions, and Chega does a lot with ascending and descending arpeggios which kind of unusual for a melody, and those melodies are a nice challenge to play on the DB.

    Van Heusen's Here's That Rainy Day has also grown on me, particularly the interaction of the harmony and melody, but, of course, the melody isn't much of a challenge to play, IME.

    Haggard's What's New? I've found disappointing. I've always enjoyed Sinatra's recording of the tune and even though I'm not a Sinatra fan, I thought it one of his best recordings, demonstrating excellent vocal control, but the chord progression is begging for a reharm, IMO. Beyond boring.

    The more I've been working on Giant Steps and Countdown the more I've come to enjoy them. They're kind of "locked in" as far playing chord substitutions but there's some room there and their chord progressions are interesting enough to keep me exploring them for a large part of my practice.

    I have my own charts for Chega and Rainy Day, and found various Real Book versions of the other tunes "close enough", and I can post any that you'd like to see.
     
    kinnon64 likes this.
  2. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    Ballads with the bow. Learn the lyrics. My teacher has me working on a Faure art song, "Apres Un Reve", and it's kicking my ass.
     
  3. salcott

    salcott Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    NYC, Inwood.
    It’s the version in D. It looks easy at first glance. I’ve been on the first phrase for a week and still can’t make music out of it.
     
    Tom Lane likes this.
  4. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    Learning to do what we cannot do is where growth happens. Yoda?
     
    drumsnbass likes this.
  5. Carl Hillman

    Carl Hillman

    Jan 1, 2010
    Imagine how this guy feels.

     
    Sam Sherry, salcott and Tom Lane like this.
  6. notabene

    notabene

    Sep 20, 2010
    SF Bay area
    I've come away with a deeper affection for Ceora and Chega which have very sophisticated melodies with interesting chord progressions, and Chega does a lot with ascending and descending arpeggios which kind of unusual for a melody, and those melodies are a nice challenge to play on the DB.
    .....
    The bridge to "Chega" is chordally "Indiana" . Very clever, lighthearted, theft!
     
  7. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    Really? I'm not seeing that. What part do you consider the bridge in Chega? Where's it start?
     
  8. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg

    Jul 7, 2004
    Chicago
    I think he means the first 8 bars when the tune goes major.
     
  9. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    Ah, if I remember correctly, the RB version didn't match the recording I liked so I transcribed both the chords and melody on that one, so, the version I transcribed doesn't have that Indiana quote.

    chega 1.jpg chega 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
    longfinger likes this.
  10. J_Bass

    J_Bass

    Feb 7, 2008
    Porto, Portugal
    Saudade is a portuguese word that only exists in our language. It can be translated, of course, but not by a single word.

    Sorry for the derail, but portuguese words in TB caught my attention.
     
    longfinger and drumsnbass like this.
  11. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    And a beautiful, flowing language it is, IMO. I don't know the lyrics to Chega de Saudage, but I do to Garota de Ipanema, and Insensatez. Much better than the English version. Same for Autumn Leaves in French, though it was originally in the composer's mother tongue, Hungarian. I've never heard it in Hungarian but I'd like to.
     
    J_Bass likes this.
  12. Carl Hillman

    Carl Hillman

    Jan 1, 2010
    I always hear the bridge as being the same changes as "When You Wish Upon A Star".
    ...at least for the first 11 bars.
     
  13. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    Here is my arrangement of "Chega....".
    The most significant change occurs in the letter C Section AABC - I struggled to find a different harmonic path in the first 4 bars there - /Dmaj7 - Gsus,9,13/Cmaj7......./ Fmaj7......./ G#7,+5,#11...../
    ...and the final "resolution" to Gmin6,9/D - kind of a "unresolved resolution", as the strict "Dmin" sonority is not really explicitly stated.
    My good friend and pianist, (Ed Czach) upon playing this arrangement commented - "this is really nice....who did you steal it from?" (Effin' Piano Playas)
    The melody is a great TP workout, as well.
    Obrigado.
    IMG_4083.JPG IMG_4084.JPG
     
    drumsnbass and Tom Lane like this.
  14. notabene

    notabene

    Sep 20, 2010
    SF Bay area
    Here (I hope) is an MP3 of the "major half" of an arrangement, (played by Sibelius robotics) of Chega written for a 9 piece band. Being a robot, the rhythm section is mechanical, but at least you may hear "Indiana" and "Chega" coexist.
     

    Attached Files:

    Tom Lane likes this.
  15. TroyK

    TroyK Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2003
    Seattle, WA
    I think that "What's New?" is a brilliant composition. Maybe the changes aren't on their own, but together with the melody and the lyrics, it's a wonderful human story, supported by perfect musical sentiment. Helen Merrill's recording with Clifford Brown first got my attention.
     
    msw and Chris Symer like this.
  16. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    I compared our charts and thought they're reasonably the same; meaning that most of the discrepancies I felt I could ascribe to reasonable substitutions or the choice of the bassist. Do you remember which recording you transcribed? I can't remember whether I transcribed one of Elise Regina's or Gal Costa's. I do remember that I had some trouble finding what I thought was a clear and "intentional" recording for the melody and harmony. And, lesson learned, henceforth, when I transcribe, I'll note the recording.

    Related to that, what changes do you use for What's New? At this point, I'd ask to see the chart before I agreed to play the tune less I be in "36251" hell for 15 minutes.
     
  17. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    This is my arrangement... Esp. the chords in the first 4 measures at letter C on the chart. Very different from the Jobim changes there. (I fixed the RB Melody by listening to Jobim's melody, as I recall.)
    I would expect the bassist to follow my changes - some are not just "subs..." or "choice of the bassist".
    Let me fire up my Dewey Decimal system and see what I find. (It has a nice Major/Minor template, as I recall.)
    Thanks, Tom.
     
  18. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    I've always liked Billy's changes on this tune - no "Diatonic Wash of Sameness" (tm J. Goldsby!) for him. Check out the first bar of each section (AABA) - 2 Dominant 7th chords a half-step apart. (C7 #9 +5/B7b9 13 on the A's, and F7#9 +5/E7b9 13 on the B section.) Also - some strong i7, "natural" VI7, iimin7 b5, V7#9 +5 root movement (in the minor sections.)
    Billy did not suffer fool's changes...
    Thanks.
     
    Tom Lane likes this.
  19. Tom Lane

    Tom Lane Gold Supporting Member

    Brilliant! Who knew? ;)
     
    Don Kasper likes this.
  20. Don Kasper

    Don Kasper Supporting Member

    Well... Everybody Digs Bill Evans!
     

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